Who is God? A Debate on the Trinity | Dr. James White v Joe Ventilacion of Iglesia Ni Cristo

I've finally finished watching the recent debate between Dr. James White and Joe Ventilacion of Iglesia Ni Cristo.  If you haven't seen the debate, South Dakota Apologetics has the entire debate (including intermissions) in the video below:


Description:
Dr. James White of Alpha & Omega Ministries debates Bro. Joe Ventilacion of Iglesia ni Cristo, moderated by Dale Bartcher of Family Heritage Alliance. Dr. White defends the affirmative: “The Bible teaches that within the one Being that is God there exists eternally three coequal and coeternal persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” Bro. Joe Ventilacion argues the negative. This event is held in Rapid City, SD, in the Best Western Ramkota Convention Center at 6PM MST, on April 21st, 2017. This event was arranged and coordinated by the ministry of South Dakota Apologetics.
Some of my own, brief observations:

  • Different name, same story.  I, like many of you, haven't encountered any INC before, so this debate was certainly revealing in some ways.  It wasn't new as far as argumentation, however.  Whether one is dealing with Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, or any other group arguing against the Trinity, the arguments come back to the same key texts.  Such debates are good for building Christian confidence and knowledge in the affirmative and biblical presentation of our God regardless of who we address.
  • White's anticipatory argumentation could have alone ended the debate.  Dr. White perfectly anticipated the counter-claims in his opening presentation.  Namely:
    • He stated that since he also believes in one God (monotheism), arguing that he believed in multiple gods is a misrepresentation of his Trinitarian beliefs.
    • He furthermore stated that Trinitarians believe that there are differences between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, so demonstrating those differences prove nothing against Trinitarianism.
  • This would have proved to be both a time-saver and a prodding for Ventilacion to prove a Unitarian view of God and make for a more lively debate.  Sadly, Ventilacion consistently argued
    • that Trinitarians believe in more than one God if Jesus is also God, and 
    • that there are differences between the Father and the Son.  This meant that much of the debate involved White correcting Ventilacion on Trinitarian theology rather than responding to a Unitarian rebuttal.
  • Ventilacion wasn't committed to sola scriptura. After White's opening argument which is chock-full of Scripture, Ventilacion argued that White only believes in the Trinity only because it's a holdover from Roman Catholicism.  He couldn't prove it, but okay.  Such a charge would have carried more weight if Ventilacion had made his own sola scriptura case; he instead had a library and a team handing him multiple INC materials (among others) to support his claims.  When Ventilacion quoted Scripture, it was a hodge-podge of English versions (NKJV, TEV, and NLT to name a few).
  • Ventilacion also wasn't committed to tota scriptura.  By the way, White anticipated Ventilacion with his call to sola scriptura and tota scriptura, that theology should arise from the Scripture alone and should consider all of Scripture.  Unfortunately, Ventilacion would base his arguments on parts of verses or verses out of context, and never ventured far from 1 Timothy 1:17  When White pressed him for context on certain verses, Ventilacion would shrug it off and change to other contexts.  I'm not sure what they really believe about Jesus based on this debate (other than He is created, not God), as Ventilacion stuck to a strictly negative presentation.
  • Did Ventilacion know Greek?  It became clear even to someone with as limited knowledge of Greek as myself that Ventilacion has no real facility in the languages.  For instance:
    • He was oddly fixated on the accusative case for one of his arguments (an argument I couldn't figure out, to be honest).
    • He didn't seem to know what White was talking about when asking if a kai was conjunctive and disjunctive (and made an off-handed comment was that he didn't know what was important about kai being "subjunctive," apparently meaning to say "con/disjunctive").  
    • He had persistent trouble with his glasses when another question about the Greek was raised.  In reading the Greek Septuagint, Ventilacion asked White where the Tetragrammaton was (YHWH - the Name of God in the Hebrew text). 
    • One need not be a Greek scholar to know about God (praise the Lord!), but it's noteworthy because Ventilacion claims to have taught Greek, seemed to mock White's Greek pronunciations at the beginning of the debate, and was trotting out his own Greek analysis.
  • White kept presenting the gospel!  White extended a clear and impassioned gospel call three times in the course of the debate.  This was not only encouraging and an example to us in our own interactions, but a cause for prayer as we continue to hear about this debate and its effects.  It's sad that INC seems to have no hope in the eternality of the soul (though it wasn't clear what Ventilacion was actually saying).
Those are some of my thoughts.  If you want more:


Popular posts from this blog

RE: "Pastor Dayna Muldoon EXPOSED"

Image
It enough to make your heart ache.  "Pastor" Dayna Muldoon  has been pitching her tent in Florida, and like Todd Bentley before , false claims to miracles, healing, and prophecies litter her campsites. This video of a Calvary Chapel pastor exposing her as a false prophet has been appearing in various places, and its been uploaded to YouTube multiple times.  Even Todd Friel got animated about this , and nothing gets him hyper. Here's the deal: Muldoon set up her tent-meetings right down the road from Calvary Chapel St. Petersburg , peeking the interests of many attending the church.  When they listened to the message she presented, however, they found it not to be the Gospel, but instead the typical narcissistic message of health and blessings from God. This is coming from a Calvary Chapel crew, folks that are typically non-cessationists themselves.  Many churches, including this particular Calvary Chapel , host after-glow services where one expects similar claims
Click to read more...

Was Rebekah a child when she married Isaac?

Did Isaac marry a three-year-old?  If you've never pondered this question, it's because nothing in the straightforward reading of the text would suggest that Rebekah was a toddler or that their marriage was arranged. Even so, a couple of verses out of context could be used by skeptics to prove anything.  While perusing the web for a related topic, however, I found a thread stating that the Bible isn't against the raping of children .  The cited evidence was this issue, the claim being that Isaac engaged in pedophilia. The question comes from the fact that Genesis 22:23 announces the birth of Rebekah after the binding of Isaac.  Tradition states that Isaac was then thirty-seven, and Scripture says that the two wed when Isaac was forty (Gn 25:20).  Hence, Isaac robbed the cradle. The whole theory is fraught with assumptions, the primary being that Scripture never records a age marker for Rebekah.  Further complicating the matter, however, is Jewish tradition, which spe
Click to read more...

MacArthur: Calvinism in a Nutshell

Image
From YouTube: Calvinism (Also know by Doctrines of Grace or Reformed theology) John MacArthur use Romans 8:28-30 as main text. The five points of calvinism are Total depravity (total inability), Unconditional election, Limited atonement (Also called particular redemption or definite atonement), Irresistible grace (also called efficacious grace), and Perseverance of the saints. Full sermon http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-427 Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom He predestined, He also called. And these whom He called, He also justified. And these whom He justified, He also glorified."
Click to read more...